> Grafana is fine to get to a selfhosted basic install. But once you try to actually connect logs, metrics, traces in selfhosted context and perhaps sprinkle some otel in...that sht gets out of hand very fast. It's modular in a way that seems like a win but once you start connecting stuff it starts adding complexity not easy.
Maybe because some open-source software has limitations? That seems reasonable to me.
I believe I first deployed VictoriaMetrics almost 5 years ago and have had zero regrets. Was also evaluating Thanos and InfluxDB at the time.
The lead dev is super passionate about straightforward software that just works, and it shows.
Later my coworker deployed VictoriaLogs in about 15 minutes, added it to our syslog targets. Night and day compared to Elastic. Use both of them probably every day through Grafana.
What about InfluxDB? Speaking of standards, it’s worth noting that this system was created early on, when microservices were emerging as a concept. Another reason this “de facto standard” emerged is that there were almost no alternatives. This is what we need to understand about standards and who promotes them. But technology doesn’t stand still, and I wouldn’t call Prometheus the standard right now, because OpenTelemetry is already starting to be referred to as the standard in the field of observability. Some people like it, some don’t, but Zabbix and Nagios are still going strong; for some, they remain the standard for monitoring for a variety of personal reasons.
The answer to your question was deleted, so I'll post it again:
Vertically on a single machine, the two are quite similar, both fan work out across all CPU cores.
The different is on scaling out.
ClickHouse scales by making you describe the cluster yourself. You decide how many shards to split the data into, how many copies (replicas) each shard keeps, which row goes to which shard.
The copies are kept in sync by a consensus system ClickHouse Keeper. This is flexible but also more works on operators.
VictoriaLogs takes the opposite bet. When logs come in, the inserter just spreads them across all storage nodes on its own, so there is no sharding key for you to design.
When a query runs, the selector asks every storage node in parallel and merges the results. There is no consensus system at all. If you want high availability, you run 2 independent clusters and send your logs to both, rather than having the database copy data internally. So this is simpler and less learning curve.
See more here https://victoriametrics.com/blog/victorialogs-architecture-b...
Sounds like the same architecture used by Victoria Metrics storage. I ran it for years on a previous platform and it was so incredibly easy to operate and troubleshoot, and the performance is unreal!
Because I left that team. :D They're still using it and are happy though.
The platform I'm currently working on uses GCP Cloud Metrics, which is all sorts of bad. Funny enough, today I was troubleshooting something on it and after a good 30-40 min of frustration I decided to ask Gemini.
Gemini not only confirmed that Cloud Metrics is incredibly bad, but it listed 5 different ways in which it's a horrible experience and why. I then added one and it went on an 6 paragraphs rant about in which ways that problem was horrible and frustrating.
I've been advocating for migrating to Victoria Metrics, and I think it's going to happen - there's too many competing priorities at the moment though, so it might take a while.
With VM, I've had great success with just quietly introducing it in one part of the system. People quickly notice how reliable and low fuss it is, and from there adoption grows.
It's one of those magical systems you can successfully grass-roots into an organisation with low to very low risk.
Taking a look at their LogQL language, I don't see anything that would be particularly hard on the planner. You can't get the fan-out that makes fully relational query planning so difficult with the kind of boolean filters they seem to use. Planning should mostly be a matter of sorting by column cardinality and query optimization so you aren't doing unnecessary operations.
I read somewhere that the owners have ties to russia, but the most important thing is that they’re marketing very aggressively through posts that slander GraphenOS.
IIRC the company tried to become a major mobile operating system in the BRICS countries, which led to Rostelecom, the Russian state telecom operator, purchasing a majority state in the company in the mid-2010s. After Russia invaded Ukraine, the company's management started a new company and moved all their employees and IP over to it to escape the Russian ownership.
Russian Aurora OS was an official Sailfish OS offspring, focused on MDM devices, but Sailfish cut ties with Aurora in 2022, after the Russia-Ukraine war has emerged. It's now developed independently of Sailfish, although they share the same code since the codebase was unified before the split.
They did. This was an unfortunate reality for Finnish telecom companies before the Ukraine war. Russia was an obvious market and a company looking for profit would be practically forced to try to work there.
As for Jolla, this is about the timeline:
2014 Russia attacks Crimea, temporarily occupies it
2016 Jolla grants Sailfish license to a private Open Mobile Platform LLC in Russia
2018 Rostelecom (state-owned Russian company) buys Open Mobile Platform
2020 Sailfish license to Rostelecom ends
2021 Jolla ceases all business in Russia -- at this point Rostelecom owns 32% of Jolla either directly or via subsidiaries
2022 Russia attacks rest of Ukraine in February
2022 Jolla starts dislodging from Russian ownership. Negotations with russian owners unsuccessful.
2023 Jollyboys Oy is formed, business restructuring of Jolla starts to move assets there
2024 Jolla files for bankruptcy to get finally rid of rest of the problematic ownership
So the current company around the new Jolla phone is technically a new company and has none of the previous baggage, but retains most of the non-russian owners and staff of Jolla.
The time between 2014-2022 was of course kind of problematic, but that was the reality in Europe. We still widely and naively gave Russia the benefit of the doubt back then. It seems to me that after Russia started the war in 2022, Jolla started immediately moving away from there.
FWIW, as someone who is not in the phone OS development world at all but has been reviewing phones with alternative OSes for about the last 4 years...
My impression is that everyone else in the phone-OS and deGoogled-Android world hates the GrapheneOS folks, and it's mutual. They seem to be borderline impossible to work with, very arrogant and protectionist, and the project's own support lifetime is "when Google no longer supports your phone, we don't either."
Personally, I'd choose something else. Anything else, in fact.
They also do not post much on LineageOS and when they do it usually articulates the difference between both (with LineageOS focusing more on customizability, while being much less secure).
I think the strongest disagreement is with /e/OS, which is not surprising, because their founder goes around to various widely-viewed/read media insinuating that security hardening/GrapheneOS is only for pedophiles and spies.
They seem to be borderline impossible to work with, very arrogant and protectionist,
As a user, they seem to be responsive to bug reports and actively helping out people in their forums. Not sure what else I need.
and the project's own support lifetime is "when Google no longer supports your phone, we don't either."
But that makes sense, right? One of the main foci of GrapheneOS is security. If Google stops supporting a Pixel model, there will be no more updates of firmware bundles, etc. Most firmware has monthly CVEs, pretending that it doesn't would go counter one of the main goals of GrapheneOS. If you want to maintain such a phone as an insecure device after Google's update period, there are other options you could switch to.
I am also not sure how much this matters. Even Pixel budget devices (a-series) have 7 years of security updates now. It's not only one of the longest in the industry, it's probably beyond how long 95% of the population uses a phone.
I know the people behind SailfishOS, they’re not like, friends or anything: just ex-Nokia developers who got fucked by Microsoft (like I did, btw, which is how I know of them).
I feel like the big tech smartphone duopoly would have a reason to spread such rubbish, but its so patently obvious that I doubt they are so stupid.
It’s a sensitive topic for the US because it is an an EU-backed and funded project to move away from US tech, which undermines US interests globally. which is why you might see some unusually intense anger/vitriol hurled their way and Goebbels-level fabrications
"It acquired new investors in 2016, among them the Russian company Votron. In March 2018 they were joined by Rostelecom (which is state owned) as investor, which took over Votron and OMP."
Note that was after 2014 russian invasion into Ukraine.
After the 2022 invasion of Ukraine, Jolla moved to cut ties.
It sought to disengage from any Russian ownership from early 2022, entered corporate restructuring at the Pirkanmaa District Court, and on 24 November 2023 the court approved a programme obligating a complete sale of the business.
In May 2024 the original Jolla company filed for bankruptcy, its activities having been taken over in 2023 by the Jollyboys company established by Jolla’s former management.
The current entity is owned by the management team, with no Russian stake. So as of now, the “Russian-owned” framing is substantially outdated.
The word to describe this is /законтачений/ . Some people are to be avoided even if they maintain the outward appearance of normalcy and not even realize themselves what the problem even is. Trust bit permanently burned, nothing to see here.
I get frustrated when people draw imaginary Russian connections into projects/products that I like. It often happens with anything “hackerish” or non-mainstream (particularly privacy adjacent things) and has become quite annoying.
being owned by the russian government is more than a trace amount of "imaginary" connection, but since you like it, it doesn't matter. I mean, okay, reality and your vibes not being in agreement is a legit reason to be frustrated. this being done by other people is even rude, I would say
Jolla restructured after the invasion of Ukraine and the founders hold a majority share, minority owners include employees and a Finnish investor. It’s a Finnish company. Hopefully you don’t have a problem with Finns?
GrapheneOS is owned by a Canadian nonprofit foundation. One of the three board members is a Ukrainian national (currently conscripted but still on the board).
Flipper Devices is a Delaware corporation, it indeed started in Russia, but it moved out after the Ukraine war. Ukrainian nationals are on the team. It does not export to Russia.
that can mean a whole range of different things both in perception and in intention, but even at best it's "russian government currently doesn't control the company". if we speak about the /connection/, it can mean different things.
but the question worth asking -- are the people who took money from the russian government in past are the people I want to give my money to?
>Flipper Devices is a Delaware corporation, it indeed started in Russia, but it moved out after the Ukraine war. Ukrainian nationals are on the team. It does not export to Russia.
believe it or not, but the same goes and I would judge those Ukrainian nationals too.
Straight up conspiracy theories you're spreading here. Daniel Micay is Canadian, Dmytro Mukhomor is Ukrainian (he was literally conscripted into the Ukrainian army last year), and Khalykbek Yelshibekov is from Kazakhstan.
Ah I forgot about that. I don't think Russians will allow those companies to return for a very long time. When all the Western companies left the huge markets across verticals were handed out to local and east asian companies.
Russians hate the West and the incumbents know it. If Western companies started to muscle in again they would drop the price to protect their market shares.
Kind of silly to give up your entire market share over an unwinnable war.
reply to below: I had to add the rebuttal to your racist comment earlier (which you ironically deleted) by editing this comment, because I am being throttled and cannot reply to anymore comments.
Meh, I don't get it—what's stopping you from running the same benchmark on a Kubernetes cluster and sharing your own benchmark results, instead of just claiming that this benchmark is crap?
The company selling a product and trying to convince me with benchmarks should be the one putting in the honest effort. The point is to nudge them towards doing this themselves, because people who know about things (how to run distributed system benchmarks) will silently close the tab. HN gives feedback to each other so we can improve. Do you have a problem with that?
Another thing we try to do here is avoid comments that lower the level of discourse, it's in the guidelines.
It seems you are biased to OP, your comment does more harm than good to their effort. (why would I want to use this project if the people around it make snide remarks)
What's about configuring the codec correctly? Using mjpeg? Using VNC? Throwing all this shit into the trashcan and get just diff's in utf-8 from the coding agent?
Or maybe self-write the code to not create this hell of bullshit code that lead to the issues the article writes about?
Maybe because some open-source software has limitations? That seems reasonable to me.