Not really. It's just a tolling overlay that changes the deal and perpetuates bad engineering. Just as traffic grows to fill a road, budgets grow to spend revenue.
The positivity of it varies dramatically based on the type of jurisdiction and what entity has what power. Manhattan and London have an existing chokepoint arrangement where you won't be able to really assess it's benefit/detraction for a long time. Proponents of the Manhattan congestion pricing tend to ignore where alot growth is happening - Hoboken and Jersey City are in some ways more vital. Most of the benefit could have been realized by tolling the free river crossings, as alot of the traffic reduction was eliminating toll-avoidance trips.
In other places, you can see part of the downside with speed cameras which are starting to pick up. My city adopted them and traffic dropped noticeably, immediately. We also saw a pretty immediate effect on retail and restaurants. My wife works for a restaurant group -- RFPs for large events basically say "not in <city>", because the city's brand is toxified by tolling.
> I don't care about the revenue or what it's spent on. I care that people internalize the costs of their own decisions.
Cool, you're demonstrating that you have no understanding of the issue.
> River crossings into NYC were already not free. Not sure what you're referring to.
They sure are.
Trips that originate from Brooklyn, Queens or Long Island to New Jersey would go <origin> to Brooklyn/Manhattan/Williamsburg/Queenboro bridges. The outbound Hudson River crossings are all free.
Trips that originate from Brooklyn, Queens or Long Island to Westchester and points north or east would go <origin> to Brooklyn/Manhattan/Williamsburg/Queenboro bridges. You take the FDR drive/East Side highway to one of the free east river crossings to the bronx, then take the Deegan to one of the many parkways. You can take the Taconic all the way to Albany for $0.
BTW, the Westside of Manhattan around the tunnel crossings is now just as much of a shitshow as it was. They are just slurping up more revenue for the MTA to set aflame.
> Speed cameras and stop cameras are also great and should be virtually everywhere.
They are fine if they are everywhere. You'll feel differently when you get a $25 fine + $50 contractor fee when you drive through a 20mph school zone in the middle of August in some random town.
> You'll feel differently when you get a $25 fine + $50 contractor fee when you drive through a 20mph school zone in the middle of August in some random town.
... why would I feel differently once getting penalized for breaking the law? I want every person who speeds through my child's school zone to get ticketed. If I'm the one doing the speeding, I should get ticketed.
> You're talking about trips within New York City (Brooklyn, Queens, and Staten Island are part of New York City) or out of New York City.
People of Long Island, which is not part of NYC, go to great lengths to avoid tolls to the mainland. You only need a few thousand cars to make a huge impact. That's the congestion that was eliminated. You can, and people do, the same from Westchester north. There is no free route from New Jersey.
The positivity of it varies dramatically based on the type of jurisdiction and what entity has what power. Manhattan and London have an existing chokepoint arrangement where you won't be able to really assess it's benefit/detraction for a long time. Proponents of the Manhattan congestion pricing tend to ignore where alot growth is happening - Hoboken and Jersey City are in some ways more vital. Most of the benefit could have been realized by tolling the free river crossings, as alot of the traffic reduction was eliminating toll-avoidance trips.
In other places, you can see part of the downside with speed cameras which are starting to pick up. My city adopted them and traffic dropped noticeably, immediately. We also saw a pretty immediate effect on retail and restaurants. My wife works for a restaurant group -- RFPs for large events basically say "not in <city>", because the city's brand is toxified by tolling.